Tuesday 25 November 2014

Rose is innocent; her actions are determined by Pinkie.
Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Use evidence from the text to support your ideas.

13 comments:

  1. Within Brighton Rock Greene presents Rose as being influenced by Pinkie, although this seems to have a significant effect on her, it does not deem her as innocent due to the fact that she is still an individual with free will just like everyone else. This means that the blame cannot be taken away from her entirely. Within chapter one of part seven of the novel (a chapter that is focalised on Rose) the word ‘pride’ is repeated by Rose numerously. In earlier chapters pride has always been associated with Pinkie’s character, this highlights to the reader how Pinkies attitude and personality is starting to rub off onto Rose due to her seemingly growing love and affection that she has for him despite the way he treats her. In this chapter Rose also shows a simlair attitude towards religion as Pinkie which is quite clearly down tho his influence as closer to the start of the novel Rose had very different ideas surrounding religion. The quote ‘she’d finished with all of that: she had chosen her side: if they dammed him they’d got to damn her, too.’ Gives a sense of scale to how big of an impact Pinkie has been on Rose’s life. Pinkie has managed to totally destroy her moral compass and transform her into a pessimistic and proud sinner, something that I am sure at the start of the novel she would never have dreamed she would be. In conclusion, despite the massive influence that Pinkie has over Rose’s life, she is still responsible for own thoughts and actions therefore removing her innocence.
    Jack Wright

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Brighton Rock is a novel that surrounds Pinkie, and it is evident that Pinkie can push or influence Rose to a certain extent. I agree with your comment on "free will", although,each character has limitations on such free will, Ida for example is bound by her theories of justice and Right and Wrong, equally, Rose is bound by the limits and rules of her religion, which has been strongly impacting on both her and Pinkie throughout the novel. In turn, even when she is Pinkie's pawn, he himself has been influenced by his limitations, his religion, and therefore she is being influenced by a higher power, perhaps this is why she so whimsically allows Pinkie to toy with her. The quote "she'd finished with all of that: she had chosen her side: if they damned him they'd got to damn her, too." has repeated references to "damning" a term of frequent use in the Bible and around the idea of Christianity, even when Rose is internally thinking (uninfluenced by dialogue restrictions of convention - narrative viewpoint of her thoughts) about Pinkie, and the direct influence he has had on her, she is almost subconsciously insinuating that religion is working through Pinkie. Greene includes several nods to religion throughout his novel, and so it is wholly believable that this is Rose's reasoning. - Ed Hobson

      Delete
  2. At the beginning of the novel Rose is innocent however when she is introduced to Pinkie she loses this innocence. This can be seen as at the beginning of the novel she said “vitriol? What’s vitriol?... Pinkie, you wouldn’t” This shows her innocence as “vitriol” is an acid that is used to burn and hurt people however she has never encountered this before and doesn’t believe that of all people Pinkie would harm her with it despite just meeting him. In contrast to this later on in the novel she says “she had chosen her side: if they damned him they’d got to damn her, too”. This demonstrates how she has lost her innocence as before she believed in heaven and it was the first thing that she thought of when thinking about God however now she feels it is necessary for her to share his punishment as they committed a mortal sin together so are damned together. Despite this she still demonstrates some innocence as she appears ignorant of what it is exactly that he will be punished for, showing how she is innocent to what he does as she is still willing to share it in order to stay with him. This shows how she changes as at the beginning she has no idea of the evil that occurs in Brighton yet at the end of the novel is willing to share the same punishment as Pinkie to stay with him.

    ReplyDelete
  3. When first introduced to the character of Rose she seems to be an inexperienced, innocent girl, but when faced with Pinkie, who seems to be a catalyst for her maturity Rose begins to lose her innocence. Throughout the novel, the word "pride" is persistently associated with the character of Pinkie, however in chapter 1 of part 7 the word is passed on and repeated by Rose. This signifies how meaningful Pinkie's presence is to Rose as his personality begins to combine with hers. The quotation “she had chosen her side: if they damned him they’d got to damn her, too” furthermore signifies Rose's loss of innocence as she has adopted Pinkie's view and adopted his acceptance of their punishment. However, at this point in the novel she still has a sense of innocence due to her naivety when it comes to Pinkie. Rose is ignorant of Pinkie's actions and is willing to take the blame for his actions, without knowing what his actions are. Although Pinkie has a huge influence on Rose and her actions, it is apparent that she still has free will and is free to make her own decisions, therefore resulting in her loss of innocence towards the end of the novel.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Rose is innocent, and her actions are controlled by Pinkie are two differing ideas as although Rose is innocent and described in a child like way throughout the book such as "Rose sat on the bed with dangling feet like a child in a classroom waiting for a teacher in order to say her lesson”, this shows clearly how Rose is a figure of innocence and naivety in the book, and her corruption by the hands of Pinkie sees her go through much, yet retains her naivety in the end of the novel in the belief that Pinkie may have truly loved her, which leads to the most probable destruction of this naive, childish nature after the end of the novel when she listens to Pinkie’s recording. She is not fully controlled by Pinkie yet is heavily influenced by him and may wish to be controlled by him. An example of this is when Rose begins to take control of Pinkie's life in Part 7 chapter 4; we see her influencing his world when he references how her intrusion into where he lives when stating “It was her room now, not his” as well as “It was her hell if anybody’s”. This shows that Rose in fact has some control over Pinkie, yet while Rose wishes to be dominated and controlled by her husband, Pinkie does not wish to lose his absolute control of his life. The fact that she defies Pinkie in the cleaning of the room shown when Pinkie says “I told you not to” and when she takes Pinkie’s money to visit Snow’s shows how her actions are determined by herself, yet she is heavily influenced by Pinkie and wishes to be a good wife to him.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Throughout ‘Brighton Rock’ Pinkie’s influence on Rose tempts her into evil and sins, despite her original innocence and purity. Initially in ‘Brighton Rock’, Rose is described as being a “good” girl by both Pinkie and Ida, with the narrative voice describing that “What was most evil in him (Pinkie) needed her (Rose): it couldn’t get along without goodness”, suggesting that due to her religious beliefs, she is portrayed, due to the connotations of the word “goodness”, as a symbol of purity and innocence. By the final chapter within the novel, Rose has transformed into a character with developed religious opinions which are heavily influenced and linked to Pinkie’s beliefs, which is shown when she explains “I’m not asking for absolution. I don’t want absolution. I want to be like him(Pinkie)-damned”. This quote shows that how her affection has not only taken over her in the physical world but in the religious world too and despite her understanding of morals within the physical world, due to her committing a “mortal sin”, she believes that damnation is better than being absolute and living in the peace. Yet, she only desires damnation in order to be with Pinkie and to have the hope of living a better life with him, further suggesting that Rose is heavily influenced by Pinkie within ‘Brighton Rock’ and that he is able to manipulate and persuade her into his extreme religious beliefs. The use of the word “want” shows her desire and demand to be with Pinkie further conveying her lack of morals as a result of Pinkie’s influence. Overall this shows that despite her original innocence and purity, Pinkie taints and twists Rose’s beliefs in order to make him sub-consciously determine her actions.

    ReplyDelete
  6. The statement above can be backed up by evidence in the novel, such as the quote; "vitriol... scares a polony more than a knife"- from Pinkie on his first date with Rose. This statement helps build an argument to agree with the statement as it shows how threatening and hostile Pinkie is towards Rose from even their first encounter. The narrator then goes on to say that Rose is terrified, feeling a mixture of "horror and admiration" towards Pinkie, neither of which words posses connotations of happiness or love which is significant as it shows this relationship is founded on Rose's fear of what Pinkie may do to her if she does not comply with him. Not only this but the use of the term 'Polony' reminds the reader of the hatred Pinkie feels towards women in general, this is due to polony being a general term for women in general, thus showing that Pinkie views Rose as no different to the other women he despises. However there is a flaw in the statement as by the end of the novel Rose is no longer innocent, this is due to her committing the mortal sin of underage marriage; not only this but Rose also sleeps with Pinkie after they are married, but due to it being a sham-wedding, this is yet another mortal sin. This is important in the novel as Rose prides herself on her purity and religious beliefs/ virtues, however by the end of the novel we see both her purity and her beliefs waver as Pinkie descends further and further into a paranoid, deluded state.- Tom Brooks

    ReplyDelete
  7. The statement above can be backed up by evidence in the novel, such as the quote; "vitriol... scares a polony more than a knife"- from Pinkie on his first date with Rose. This statement helps build an argument to agree with the statement as it shows how threatening and hostile Pinkie is towards Rose from even their first encounter. The narrator then goes on to say that Rose is terrified, feeling a mixture of "horror and admiration" towards Pinkie, neither of which words posses connotations of happiness or love which is significant as it shows this relationship is founded on Rose's fear of what Pinkie may do to her if she does not comply with him. Not only this but the use of the term 'Polony' reminds the reader of the hatred Pinkie feels towards women in general, this is due to polony being a general term for women in general, thus showing that Pinkie views Rose as no different to the other women he despises. However there is a flaw in the statement as by the end of the novel Rose is no longer innocent, this is due to her committing the mortal sin of underage marriage; not only this but Rose also sleeps with Pinkie after they are married, but due to it being a sham-wedding, this is yet another mortal sin. This is important in the novel as Rose prides herself on her purity and religious beliefs/ virtues, however by the end of the novel we see both her purity and her beliefs waver as Pinkie descends further and further into a paranoid, deluded state.- Tom Brooks

    ReplyDelete
  8. Throughout the novel Brighton Rock, the character of Rose comes across as being innocent through Pinkie's constant power over her. For example, this can be seen through the marriage of Pinkie and Rose and how Pinkie manipulates Rose by using her innocence as a tool to get what he wants, " Where've you been?...Don't you know you're late?" This shows Pinkie's brutality by pushing aside Rose's independence in order to achieve what he wants. The use of the phrase 'don't you know' implies that Pinkie is treating her like a child and that the only reason Rose is committing a 'mortal sin,' by marrying Pinkie is because Pinkie himself is forcing her to do so. The first person narrative of Pinkie telling Rose, suggests to the reader that Rose is almost being 'told off' the harshness of the rhetorical question suggesting she is undervalued by Pinkie. The structure of the sentence being two questions alludes to Greene's underlying intention of making Pinkie come across as paranoid, which also relates to the crucial part in which the marriage is taking place within the events of the novel. This further links to the theme of 'religion versus secular morality' as the reason for Rose being late is that she wanted to go to confession but left as she saw no point to it. Therefore, Rose's internal conflict of religion against her ideas and marrying Pinkie effects the reader by proving that Rose is innocent and is merely an object used by Pinkie in his schemes, all of her wrong doing being provoked by Pinkie also.

    ReplyDelete
  9. The character of Pinkie is that which is principle to the novel, Brighton Rock, and it is Pinkie that does influence the behaviours of Rose. The character of Rose is suppressed by the limitations of Catholicism, which does significantly effect upon Pinkie, and Rose within the novel. Pinkie is, also, influenced by these limitations, the religion of which he does abide, and Rose is influenced by a greater power, therefore, which does ambiguously justify as to why she does enable Pinkie to demand, and insist. Ida is, also, suppressed by the concept that a behaviour is defined as right, or wrong. The quotation ‘she’d finished with all of that: she had chosen her side: if they damned him they’d got to damn her, too.’ which does have references to ‘damning’, which is a phrase associated with the Bible, and with that of Christianity. A chapter which is focalised through Rose, whereby the internal emotion of the character is known through the narrative voice, whereby Rose does reference toward Pinkie the direct influence of which he does have upon her is made known. - Ben Spicer

    ReplyDelete
  10. Rose’s innocence is present throughout the novel and her potentially
    sinful acts are a result of her naivety and reluctance to take control of her own actions. This is seen in the quote “sometimes he’s bad to me. Oh I can tell you”. This shows how Rose can be aware of the detrimental effects of her being with Pinkie yet she chooses to ignore this as the idea of her finding an escape from her past life is what she wanted and she is still optimistic about what the future might hold. This shows the reader that the behaviour of Rose is indeed innocent as she never willingly sins on her own accord, she is very much under the control of Pinkie when he is present and occasionally when he is not present. This is seen when Ida visits her and Rose is extremely defensive of her marriage to him. The range of behaviours Rose displays shows her lack of comfort and how she is confused which means she cannot be intentionally sinning and is resultantly innocent. - Dylan Peters

    ReplyDelete
  11. In Brighton Rock Rose is primarily introduced to be a young innocent girl. Her judgement is heavily influenced by religion, ensuring that all her actions outcome with no wrong doing. As the novel progresses, Rose's innocence is corrupted, with her judgement being heavily clouded by Pinkie's abnormal mindset. Her actions redeem that of Pinkie's so that their fates remain equal. Rose's guiltless persona is reflected through the quotation "what was most evil in him needed her: it couldn't get along without goodness". The imagery depicted from the idea that the evil within Pinkie needed her reflects how her purity will be infected by this looming sense of evil that will manipulate Rose's humanity so that it can be used as an advantage to evils way. Rose's pureness is the desire that Pinkie wants, contradictorily to the typical view of men wanting women, it shows signs of Pinkie's peculiarity. As the play progresses further we can see how Pinkie's evil has sucessfully managed to infiltrate Rose, "I want to be like Pinkie - damned." Pinkie has manipulated Rose by convincing her that he loves her, making Rose vulnerable and willing to sacrifice her purity and "goodness" for the sake of being with Pinkie. Rose's new judgement has clearly been captivated by Pinkie's obscure moral values and inhumanity. COncluding that Rose's innocence is present, yet Pinkie has manipulated her naive mindset to obtain what he desires. - Natasha

    ReplyDelete